So, why bother?

[bard_linn]

So, we posted today. Yay, right? We get to see everyone's reactions to what we wrote.

But it seems like NOBODY cares about anything other than the pairings.

A lot more is going on in the fic beyond pairings. In many ways, I feel like the rest of the stuff in the fic is more important than the pairings. I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned anything about the small object of Great Plot Importance In The Original Game this chapter (anybody catch that?). Nobody talked about Tifa in the Turks bar or anything else - it's all pairing stuff.

And yes, we're trying to write some realistic pairings. That means some people may fall in love, but not stay together for ever. That means some people may start sleeping together but not stay together forever. That means some people might have sex, but not really have a relationship - and have a lot of things to work out before 'happily ever after.' All of the characters have different flaws. It's something we work really hard on. Sometimes that might be communications issues, or perception issues, or just plain avoidance issues. We're trying to make them three dimensional.

I feel like all this work is being wasted. We do a lot of groundwork in these chapters....and all we hear about is pairings, pairings, pairings.

Yeah, I know if we said "x, y and z are going to be the pairings" we'd probably have less issues but...I want BE to be more than just pairing fic. It was always meant to be a lot more than pairing fic.

Comments

[kalloway]

I have a really intelligent comment to make after I've gotten a few hours sleep but I want to really quickly say that I understand. I have one of those. It's called 'Aftershocks' and it's supposed to be about how people survive when everything they knew has suddenly changed. Which means it was automatically dropped into a Leon/Cloud C2 (they kiss once, I think) and everyone is happily speculating pairings. *headdesk?*

[emptybackpack.livejournal.com]

Hey, don't take this the wrong way, but fuck them. There are people who go to the museum on a Saturday afternoon because it's something to do, and there are people who go because they have a driving need to see art. And what you're doing is art. The casual readers come into your museum and go Hey, look at the pretty dangling light exhibit, or gee, that exhibit with the bodies is really gross, but there are readers out there, some of your readers, who come into your museum and look at the lights and the bodies and think about what the artist was saying, who think about how small we are in the universe and how fragile.

[byakko4.livejournal.com]

I lurk most of the time darling, but the reason I read BE, is the plot, pure and simple. Pairings are somewhat secondary. The plot and the concept are what drew me and that's part of why I read it. Because I love what-ifs. You take a single event, and turn the world on it's side, and that's what makes me refer to you and BE as goddesses to my coworkers(who I'm attempting to convert to fandom). You put a lot of time and effort into this, and its definitely appreciated. emptybackpack is right. You make me think, at least. I stumbled across your fic with your FMA one, Coffee. I stayed because your work was all so unique, and absolutely wonderful, and well done.

[aphelion-orion.livejournal.com]

I share your pain. It is the main reason I stopped writing FF7 fanfiction, because all people cared about was TEH SEXXORS. No matter what I wrote, all I got was demands that I make people fuck, and it got tedious. It seems most people don't care about realism and the hard work that goes into writing a good plot, or an intense character piece, all they want is cock A in hole B.

So yes, teal deer, I understand your frustration all too well.I stayed with your work for so long because it focused on things besides who was doing whom, and even if I don't always agree with plot points or decisions you make, I feel that you always think about things for a long time before you introduce them, so that makes me love your work.

Long story short? Don't give up. If you really love BE and want to see it through to the end, then don't listen to those idiots.

Hadn't gotten to commenting yet

[lochar.livejournal.com]

But I'll give you some feedback now. :P

First off. Tifa and the bar. Guess some things never change. If she can't own her own bar, she'll have to work in someone elses. :) Although, if she's smart, she'll reverse what the Turks are doing and keep an eye on them. If the Flying Dragon is 'their' bar Midgar, then any real change in schedule with them should tip her off to at least go check on Aeris.

And yes, I noticed the White Materia. I'm actually wondering if it will have as large a role to play as it does in canon, seeing as how Sephiroth isn't being the average Jenova-bitca that he was. Granted, Reunion still wants to happen, but without Sephiroth at it's head, there's a lot larger of a chance that Sephiroth will do what Cloud does in game. Bitch slap the hell out of Jenova.

As for pairings, I didn't expect Cloud to hit it off as well as he thought he did. I would have expected there to be a lot more issues between the two because of the ruse Tifa pulled for years with her father. Granted, there's the chance they can build on it into a real relationship, but that's not the best way to start either.

Just don't ship Yuffie and Vincent. :P


And I did notice that if Zack doesn't get his ass into gear and do something about Aeris, she'll be back on the market for only a short while. Reeves isn't above manipulation, as seen by Cait Sith.

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm going through. It's aggravating, but I guess we'll just have to get through it, huh?

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Thank you. *hearts!* It's hard to remember that some time. :)

I feel kind of bad though because that's how I am with visual art. XD;;; Ah well, written word is what I really enjoy.

Edited because I can't get the heart thing to work...>.>

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Goddesses? We're kind of blushing over here, but thank you for the compliment!

...oh my god that fic. It's so....awful old. o.O

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

I enjoy pairings too, and can't say I don't like some good stuff on that, but I like to see more than that, you know?

I'm glad you enjoy it, even if you don't agree with every decision. We talk for hours and hours on all of the stuff in this story, so I'm glad that is coming through!

We won't. :) I was just feeling particularly off yesterday, but your and others comments have cheered me up. ^.^

[elanor-pam.livejournal.com]

Mmmm. I feel partially guilty because my comment was rather short and came across as ship fighting. Truth be told, I tend to take these "lull" chapters for granted; they may introduce elements, but until they're put to use later on I'll just go on assuming anything that showed up in them has a chance of coming back to bite my ass later.

For example, the white materia - we know Aeris has it and commonly uses it as adornment, so seeing it show up in a domestic ambient involving her is not particularly surprising. And, since it's Aeris' magical McGuffin, I know it'll show up later in a significant context. As for Tifa in the bar with a bunch of Turks sniffing around, all I really thought about them was "Oh, Rude's probably developping his crush about now" and "Reno really wants to go home in a bag".

But, since it was already late and I had class this morning, I only commented about the one thing that bugged me most: Zack and Aeris' unresolved relationship. That's not because I don't get it that you're writing them as a real, flawed couple, and that Zack took her way too literally when she asked him to not meet her anymore, and that Aeris both wants to see him and is afraid that he might have moved on - but simply because I hate misunderstandings, and I want them both to sit down and sort themselves out as soon as possible, regardless of what the result of the conversation might be.

Misunderstandings work a lot better for me when seen in hindsight; the reader or characters look better and see all the cues they read wrong and it can be either funny or tragic and seem great in a reread, but when we see it happening it's stressful, and I keep wishing it'll be solved soon so the characters can move the hell on.

Re: Hadn't gotten to commenting yet

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Well, we like to make references to the original canon for kicks, and just because we like twisting things. Tifa will be hanging out at the bar for a while, but it might not be forever. It'll depend on how things go. ;)

Reeve isn't really being that manipulative, he's more genuinely interested in Aeris, and is beginning to care for her quite a bit.

Cloud and Tifa have been exchanging letters for years, remember. Cloud is also being somewhat desperate for an intimate relationship, so he's jumping at the chance.

Huh, . . Sorry

[kim-cc.livejournal.com]

Huh . . .

I now feel guilty -- it's not that I don't appreciate the beautiful backstory and the way the two of you have changed and molded the original game/storyline into your new universe . . .

I guess you do it so well that I commented on the pairings since to me it's a given that the changes you've done are great and thorough and consistent.

Yes, I am interested in more that the pairings being played out in your story. I want to see how the foursome are going to take out Hojo or does Vincent just decides to say the heck with it and whack him. I want to know what Vincent's demons are planning on doing with Cloud and I want to see Cloud talk with the demons again directly -- 'cause I think it's interesting that Cloud has conversations with the demons that Vincent's not aware of. I want to see Cloud emotionally develop into a fine young man and probably be slapped around (verbally or physically) at some point in time by the other men for doing something totally befitting a teenager.

Your story is beautiful and full of depth that I am waiting (trying to be patient) to see what happens next with the various threads that you have weaven -- please do not take my fangirl squealing about the couples as belittling your work -- indeed it is your work that makes me squeal over the couples as the backstory and the future continue to be fleshed out and the consequences of many things come to past.

I admit I am a poor commenter about stories. In general I lurk and read. I admit that my comments yesterday where about the pairings -- but never because I don't appreciate your work. Your work is what made me want to say anything, but being a lazy person I commented on the pairings.

So please do not loose heart. I don't want some 2D characters: I want your Zack with avoidance issues, Sephiroth's emotional problems , Cloud being a teenage boy and Tifa figuring out that Cloud's not doing it for her. Plus many other plot points that I've seen and love but do not comment on.

I eagerly look forward to reading what happens next and to see how things change and continue to develop.

kim_cc (kim carol on ff.net)

[kalloway]

I think a large amount of what people get from good fiction is what they want to get from it. We're both attracting the readers (or at least getting feedback from) who want to read about/find/experience the pairings and might see the overlaying plot as only existing to advance the relationships within the story.

I can't really begrudge those readers because they are still reading and commenting and at some level, I'm writing a story that they're enjoying, even if they aren't enjoying it necessarily as I intended them to.

You can't force anyone to 'get it'. So just keep writing the story in your head and whatever happens, you know you've written what you wanted to. ^_^

/actually conscious commentary.

*huggle*

[lanerose]

Awww Linn~!!!! *HUGS* People suck. ;_;

On the plus side, I'm really excited to get caught on BE now. ^.^;;; But then, I'm a big fan of plot-before-pairing or plot-instead-of-pairing. ^.^;;;

*HUGS* They'll grow up eventually, yeah?

[aphelion-orion.livejournal.com]

Oh, I enjoy pairings and sex as much as the next person, but like you say, a good plot and/or good characterization is something I miss all too often. And sometimes sex or romance isn't really the point of a story, so writing it would detract or outright destroy the setup.

*nodnod* I really do, and it's really noticeable that a lot of planning and plotting goes into it. I really enjoy your authors' notes, too, because they reveal some interesting things, and are always very entertaining.

I'm glad. *thumbs-up* And yeah, I totally understand. It gets to you when you feel all your hard work is being ignored.

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Dude, there was HUGE plot the couple of chapters before this, with fighting scenes and EVERYTHING and another mini-plot arc is started next chapter as well. >D

I'm feeling better; thank you Rose-twin. ^.^

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Somewhat true. I just hate the people who are "now that you're doing x pairing, I'm taking my toys and going" - especially when they haven't like, reviewed or given constructive criticism, know what I mean? I don't this it helps we're both known for being 'pairing' authors, if you get my drift.

Some pairing talk doesn't bother me - I'm just like there is so much MORE to talk about, know what I mean?

Trust me, if I could force someone to get it I would be a very rich teacher. XD;; In the mean time, I'm not planning on giving up - I was just having a rather down couple of hours.

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Right. Now, in BE's case NOT writing it would also destroy the lifeliness of the fic (not that that's a word). So yes, there will be fights, and break ups and all sorts of problems.

Glad you enjoy them! It's a pain to code, but its kind of nice not having all the comments at the bottom of the posts, you know?

Re: Huh, . . Sorry

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

See, your review didn't bother me because it wasn't "Don't pair Cloud and Tifa up!" or "this fic sucks now; I'm leaving" You were at least somewhat insightful.

(Admittedly at this point, Cloud's almost twenty, so he's not really a teen anymore. >.> But, well, he's certainly going to have some fights with the others, its not like they always get along perfectly.)

I'm glad you want to see all these things. That's good to know - a lot (most) of this story is determined by our muses and our timelines and Kiraya keeping track of the details, but the readers do influence it some too. Many people said they felt like Zack and Seph's argument at the end of chapter whatever was resolved too easily because Zack just backed down. We sat down and talked about it and realized Zack just does that for Seph, but that most of you don't know that, so we'd better expand on it. Feedback helps us improve the story. :)

[bard-linn.livejournal.com]

Well, I wouldn't say that your comment wasn't one of the ones that upset me, because it was. I understand you were rushed, but I would have rather you'd have waited until you had a bit more time.

Yeah, its painful, the pair of them right now. It hurts to even /write/ them - but it has to be done, you know? I just felt like of the whatever number of pages there was in there, something deserves attention beyond Zack and Aeris, and Cloud and Tifa - even if it was just how the girls were bonding, or such.

[elanor-pam.livejournal.com]

Normally I do wait; sadly, though, waiting usually means that it completely slips out of my mind. And that makes me feel bad, principally when it comes to fic, since I rarely get any feedback myself.

And I agree, hell, if the whole chapter was nothing but Zack and Aeris wibbling at/about each other I wouldn't poke it with a 100 feet pole. The girl bonding time was very much enjoyable, too.

Re: Huh, . . Sorry

[kim-cc.livejournal.com]

Geez, I'll have to go back and re-read (not a hardship) . . . for some reason I still pictured him as most at 18 years of age.

Huh, truthfully, never thought that Zack gave in to easily to Seph -- I always figured if he didn't feel to strongly about something yeah he'll defer to Seph. Not because he's weak, but it's something he could do for Seph.

Kim CC

[kalloway]

I don't this it helps we're both known for being 'pairing' authors, if you get my drift.

Oh trust me, I know. *_*;

In the mean time, I'm not planning on giving up - I was just having a rather down couple of hours.

Completely understandable. *huggle*